Meeting Kerry Nietz
Last year, I reviewed a science fiction book from Marcher Lord Press called A Star Curiously Singing. (And would people please quit thumbing down Jeff Gerke’s comment. He’s making fun of himself, not me.) As a result, I made the acquaintance of author Kerry Nietz, who has since become a double finalist (!) in the 2010 Indie Book Awards.
So we’re going to give a set of his books away. Because they’re cool and great fun to read. And I heart indie. Sweet and simple: leave a comment, and you’re entered for the book draw.
But first: Holy cultural relevance, Batman!
And Now, The Interview
CD: Kerry, your first novel, A Star Curiously Singing, is set in a futuristic world where cybernetic/nanotechnology is used to enforce the principles of Islamic shari’a. Your two main characters are enslaved through a brain implant which only allows them to think certain (obedient) things. In addition, though, one of them is enslaved by her culture’s perspective on gender. This really becomes clear in the sequel, The Superlative Stream.
In the Bible, I see great legal and spiritual respect for women that goes above and beyond the goals and desires of secular feminism. Yet in some areas of the Christian culture, I’ve encountered strong and disturbing parallels to the worldview your books depict. [1]
Some atheists and freethinkers protest “fundamentalism” as pretty much all equally toxic, whether Islamic, Christian or any religion. [2] Your books give a powerful response in the ongoing tale of GrimJack.
Can you tell me about who or what inspired this character?
KN: I can, but how do I do so without giving away too much? Hmmm…
You’re probably not going to believe this, but so much of my novels—at least, so far—have sprung up organically as I wrote. GrimJack is a prime example of that process. I saw Sandfly walk into a shop looking for supplies and this quirky hi-tech shop owner with a bit of a history just popped up out of the mess of archaic electrical and digger thoraxes. At the time I hadn’t given any real thought to GrimJack’s backstory other than him being someone who fully understands the life Sandfly lives. Then a scar appeared on GrimJack’s head and I realized “oh…he was one of them once.” That was about the extent of his history in A Star Curiously Singing, though.
CD: Actually, I can totally believe that. It’s how I write, and I’ve had great conversations with Marc Schooley about that slightly strange-sounding off-the-cuff phenomenon as well. Go on.
KN: The Superlative Stream was an interesting experience. I started writing thinking it would be this very odd space exploration and alien encounter story, but in the process I kept having these bursts of character backstory that forced their way to the forefront. (Something I knew my publisher was probably going to ape out over, but that’s another story.) Arguably those bursts were just my subconscious mind trying to tie all the main characters together–trying to figure out why Sandfly, HardCandy and GrimJack were all at GrimJack’s shop together in the first novel, and why GrimJack really had that scar. Then one day his whole backstory hit me, and I thought “That’s fairly profound, and sort of sad, but that’s also exactly how it happened.” From then on the emotional hinge of The Superlative Stream was decided, and GrimJack was right where he should be. Dead center.
CD: So true. It’s unexpected, and it’s deeply satisfying to come across as a reader. In your first book, Sandfly is called on to perform a nano-medical treatment on a woman who’s been severely beaten by her husband. After the treatment, she wakes up and everything is pretty much supposed to be okay. Your scene bears certain parallels to instructions on “biblical submission,” given to women in abusive relationships by a $1.7-million/year conservative Christian homeschooling and parenting ministry from Tennessee. [3]
What are your thoughts on this kind of worldview showing up in circles that self-identify as Bible-believing?
KN: Wow. I’d say, if that’s really the case, then it is unfortunate. The heart of the Bible and certainly the heart of the Gospel is freedom. Freedom from sin and condemnation, yes, but also freedom of thought and action. To summarize the Apostle Paul: as a Christian I’m free to do whatever I want, but only some of the things I might choose to do are beneficial to me and those around me. That’s where the workings of God’s Spirit and the Bible come into play—to help us choose wisely.
I realize individual situations vary. I certainly can’t speak to every relationship. But I’ve never been able to understand why someone would knowingly allow themselves to be abused. There’s a broader Biblical principle in action there—something the abused person needs to realize. If the abuser will abuse you (one of God’s special creations), then they’ll abuse anyone. Yes, the Apostle Paul allowed himself to be abused for the Gospel, but he also demanded the treatment he deserved as a Roman citizen when wrongfully treated. Protecting yourself often means protecting others, as well. Even, in some respects, the abuser.
CD: That’s a very wise observation. Thank you.
A large part of the spiritual element in The Superlative Stream is the idea that because the thoughts of slaves like Sandfly and HardCandy are completely constrained to obedience by their cybernetic implants, they are guaranteed a place in Paradise. This conditioning is achieved primarily by jolts of pain for disobedient thoughts.
The head of the abovementioned ministry writes, “The very nature of authority is the power to constrain to obedience through enforcing negative consequences…Commands are not negotiable; authority must be obeyed. The soul of the child needs that kind of authority in her life to be stable emotionally and to develop a will to accept discipline.” [4]
You’ve created a thought experiment on this very concept. Tell me about how Sandfly deals with the conditioning and the use of pain to constrain him to obey authority. Does he accept it? Does it satisfy his heart? What is he seeking, deep down?
KN: Ultimately Sandfly wants to know the Truth and be set free. In Sandfly’s world the “law” isn’t necessarily built on truth, so there are many instances where he finds his heart in conflict with what the implanted law requires of him. In fact, one of the first scenes in A Star Curiously Singing has Sandfly in such a dilemma. His implant forbids him from interceding when he sees a friend in need. He then has to jump through mental hoops to achieve the results that his heart demands.
It is interesting that you bring up parental discipline in this context, though, because I certainly never thought of Sandfly’s implant as a parenting tool. (Hmmm…would that work?) However, considering the implant initiates are selected at a very young age, perhaps I should have.
As a parent, I’m more from the “Growing Kids God’s Way” school of thought. [ed. note: see comments discussion for Kerry's clarification.] The goal should be to train the hearts of your child to understand right from wrong. I think the amount of information children need as to the “why” changes as they mature. You don’t want a three-year-old asking “Why?” when the command is “Get off the train track right now!” but you also don’t want your teenager unclear as to why it is wrong to speed through a red light. (And the answer should be a lot more significant than “because you might get caught!”) This ties in with my earlier point though: Anything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. Kids need to learn to think in those terms.
CD: In The Superlative Stream, we get insight into the adventures leading up to the circumstances of the first book. As a child, HardCandy’s girls’ school burns down, and the girls are barricaded inside because they’ve taken their headcoverings off for class. Although HardCandy escapes, many girls die. This is seen as justifiable in order to protect the sanctity of the religious social order.
Earlier in the year, a child in California was beaten to death by parents who allegedly were sincerely trying to follow the particular quasi-Christian parenting method I cited. Some of the response from Christian circles has focused on freedom to spank as a biblical principle, hinging on the religious freedom laws of the USA as well as a particular interpretation of Scripture. [5] Others feel that this insistence on circling the wagons makes the dead child’s life a sacrifice on a political and ideological altar. [6]
You seem to specialize in writing about men who fight societal and religious injustice in spite of overwhelming odds—HardCandy’s father, GrimJack, and Sandfly. HardCandy’s father is executed according to the principles of his society for trying to defend his child from the religious authorities. What biblical principles did you employ in writing that set of events? Were there particular verses or passages that spoke to you?
KN: Probably the most obvious biblical principles were: “Greater love has no one than this, than he lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13) and “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Mark 12:31) and then the Golden Rule of Luke 6:31: “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
But also, as an American, I have to list America’s founding fathers as inspiration. They too fought against societal and religious injustice despite overwhelming odds.
My books are my answer to the question: “What future do I fear for my children?” I love America and the principles it was founded on, even if those principles aren’t always followed in practice. (Those principles, of course, also derive specifically from biblical principles…despite what revisionists might like to think.) I would hate to see what the founders fought for lost—through direct or indirect means.
CD: You’ve now written two books which use science fiction as a thought lab to explore Christian perspective on man-made religion, various forms of psychological enslavement, discrimination and gender bias. As a Christian man, if you could say something to women who’ve suffered due to the misuse of religion – whether Christianity or other beliefs – what would you want them to hear you say?
KN: You’re not alone. To God you are remarkably important and special. He has a purpose for you, and He offers both freedom and healing.
CD: Overall, how do you hope to see your stories benefit readers?
KN: I hope they entertain first—because I think there is a lot that is unique, special and cool about them. But I also hope they educate. Modern western society has gotten so PC, so morally relative, that we often can’t see the very real differences in what people believe, or that those beliefs have very real and often dangerous consequences.
This is just as true in the Christian church as anywhere. Kids grow up with no idea about what makes Christianity special in the pool of ideas. It is just the way they were taught, or the way they grew up, and when later challenged they are ill-equipped to defend what they believe.
CD: Kerry, you totally rockin’ rock. Hope to have you back again to talk about a third novel. Thanks so much.
And Now, The Book Draw
Okay. I wish I’d thought about this for the art prints, but I had a Catbert fail moment. Here’s the deal, because I think Kerry’s books have something really significant to say, and because they’re just great to read:
1) MULTIPLE ENTRIES ALLOWED. Here’s how:
Just simply comment on this post, obviously. Anytime from now till midnight CST, June 3, 2010.
AND/OR:
- Tweet this link to enter, mentioning Kerry Nietz and the hashtags #scifi #books #giveaway http://wp.me/prYM2-1f2
- Post a link and shout-out on your blog to this interview
- Mention on ShoutLife, MySpace, Facebook — pick your flavour
- Email your friends and tell them to comment and mention your name
NOTE: LINKS TO NON-FAMILY-APPROPRIATE SITES/PAGES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE. No nudity, gratuitous violence/sexual content, or hater stuff.
2) When you do any of the above luxury options, comment on this post and leave me your site link/Twitter status link/etc etc etc to claim your extra entries. It’s a great way to connect with people around this topic as well.
3) This one’s open to North American continental residents only. (Cringe) Some of my best friends are overseas…The winners will have their books shipped directly to them, and I have to be able to afford that.
4) Deadline’s the same as the art print draw. Midnight, June 3rd, my clock (CST). The giveaway winner will be announced June 4th. This shindig is void where prohibited by law. Posting an entry indicates you have taken responsibility to ensure you are not legally prohibited from doing so. (Quebecois/es…you know how it is.)
And lastly, when peeps leave links, try browsing them and see who you meet. Boy, have I met some cool folks already through the art print comments. Don’t forget to enter for that draw too, where we’re choosing a cover design for a free viral e-book on parsing theology that looks good yet tastes bad.
~~~
And finally, all this Scienda noise and bustle is dedicated to the memory of Lydia Schatz — kiddo, you were beautiful — and lovingly and respectfully to her surviving siblings, who are treasured in the heart of a gentle God.
I’ll instead give you the truth. God does stoop, and angels do fall.
There is a path that will never be tested, without your consent. Without your choosing.
~Kerry Nietz, The Superlative Stream
[1] See yesterday’s post for an example of a real-life encounter. Yep. I had fun yesterday.
[2] For some passing examples, see post and comments discussion on the Schatz case at FriendlyAtheist.com — well-rounded conversation on the question.
[3] See here for a chapter-by-chapter analysis of Created to Be His Helpmeet, by Debi Pearl
[4] See No Greater Joy, Spanking a 7-Month-Old?, a confusing article full of conflicting messages about love and control.
[5] See http://worstgenerationseed.blogspot.com/2010/03/in-defense-of-pearls.html
[6] See Paul Mathers, In Which I Talk About the Horrible Event
Thanks, CathiLyn and Kerry for an awesome interview! I’ve read both of these books and I loved them. I’m not lying when I say I’ve read far and wide into CBA and ABA scifi and these are some of the best the field has to offer. A cyberpunk that wasn’t nihilistic and pessimistic but offered hope was revolutionary to me. And I LOVED the flashback tie-ins with GrimJack and HardCandy in the second book.
I tweeted the link. I’d love to see these books go viral. And I know I said I’ve read both books, but I don’t have the first one, so enter me in, please!
Can’t wait for the sequel, Kerry!
Ah, so you saw that blog (citation number 5.) I felt that the discussion in the comments went rather well. At least I seem to have gotten the last word, as far as defense of the Pearls went.
I found it interesting that KN seems to approve of Growing Kids God’s Way. Have you looked into those teachings? Start with http://www.ezzo.info.
I’m not familiar with all the connections there, Linda — too busy researching the current one. Kerry and I didn’t discuss methods very much, so I don’t know if he’s referring to the philosophy, the specific feeding practices, etc.
I’m sure it’s something that could make for informative discussion. There are a lot of authoritative voices out there asking for attention and respect, a lot for parents to consider.
We actually started to do Growing Kids God’s Way (did Babywise *cringe*) and stopped– felt VERY, VERY led to NOT continue even though it was working out well for friends. God very clearly told us, on no accounts, “No” on that one so we didn’t even look any further into it.
I should also note that these friends were doing the video series, had bought the whole set, and were very strict about it and if we had joined in, we would have had to be strict with them– it was that sort of situation. The Babywise thing really helped us but we did things a little different from the book.
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Holly — Thanks for commenting here! I really appreciate your efforts to get the word out. If there’s anything I’ve learned over the last couple months of doing this, it is that I have a lot to learn when it comes to marketing.
Linda– I appreciate your comment, and the link. Perhaps I should clarify a bit. I’ve encountered the Ezzos books on two occasions.
The first was the babywise book. With our first son, the idea of a feeding schedule was a lifesaver–or at the very least, the reason we have more than one child. For three months we struggled with him wanting to eat nearly every two hours (on demand). It was a life killer. We literally lived like hermits, wondering why anyone would voluntarily have more than one child. “We see how you could be tricked into one, but more than one? Never! Not us.” Then a friend gave my wife the babywise book for her birthday. The very first day on the schedule, my son slept 5 hours. It was incredible. We got our lives back. So we used the schedule with our daughter a few years later and got similar results.
The second was through a GKGW course we took at a church homegroup. What I most came away with from it was the idea–and I think it is a good one–that the goal is to teach your children the “why” behind what is right and wrong, and not just a list of do’s and don’ts. To make them empathize with others first. It’s the Golden Rule in practice, and it is hard to argue with that.
That said, I think God gave us His Word for wisdom, a brain for thinking, and the Spirit for discernment. I wouldn’t follow any teaching or individual without using all three. What works for one person or family may not be best for others. Use your best judgment. That’s a form of freedom too.
And here we come to the heart of it. When we wrote the post series for Parenting in the Name of God, we made the decision not to concern ourselves with parenting methods — simply to find out whether the ministry in question’s sense of who God is lines up with Scripture. And from there, to determine how that sense of God influences the use of the methods, which are another layer of the question.
I know enough about you and Leah to be sure you are not starving your kids or overscheduling them, and I can see from your remarks that you picked a concept that was important to you Scripturally, and focused on that as something you wanted to bring into your lives as parents.
Your exhortation is much appreciated, and one I very much identify with. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I am not really doing the draw for the books, since I own both now (just got the second in the mail today! YAH! Though I have several friends I wouldn’t mind getting a copy for because I am sure they would love them.
) I am however planning to get the word out. Haven’t been home all day or I would have done it sooner.
Proud owner of both volumes, here.
” (And would people please quit thumbing down Jeff Gerke’s comment. He’s making fun of himself, not me.)”
Uh, could I have my customary extra votes, please
“You’re probably not going to believe this, but so much of my novels—at least, so far—have sprung up organically as I wrote.”
Good for you, Kerry. This line really makes sense to me:
“but that’s also exactly how it happened.”
even hinting that’s it’s real in some sense. Beautiful. I believe it is.
“I love America and the principles it was founded on”
U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A!
” Kerry, you totally rockin’ rock. Hope to have you back again to talk about a third novel.”
Absolutely. Great interview, both the er and the ee.
“Uh, could I have my customary extra votes, please ”
Uh, that was only because I was feeling sorry for you that day.
“U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! U S A! ”
You, sir, are just trying to provoke the Canardians. Readers, please welcome Marc Schooley AKA MS Quixote, another very, very talented Marcher Lord Press author, and the classmate who regularly attempts to dip my pigtails in the inkwell.
“Great interview, both the er and the ee.”
Thank you kindly, Mr. Marcus Calvin Finkleman Schooley Junior.
Kerry is an absolutely fabulous conversationalist, and my only regret is that I couldn’t have done this by video and YouTubed it.
Also, thanks to Cindy F. for mentioning this as part of a conversation on her blog. Appreciate it.
I’ve been reading the MLP novels since they first started being published. I’m currently in the middle of Kerry’s first book right now and I really love the sci-fi feel of it as I am a big fan of sci-fi. I look forward to finishing it and reading the second one. I’ll be sure to tweet this link and post about it in different places. It’s good to see interviews like this one. (and for the record, I got here following your link in The Anomaly)
You mentioned to post here when we do those extra links, so here’s a couple from me:
Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000033030932&v=wall
Twitter – http://twitter.com/beyondthecharts
I hope those helps bring traffic here for you.
Be encouraged,
David
Perfect! Thanks! I hope those help folks meet Kerry.
I’d love to be entered!
Enjoyed reading the interview and would love to win the books. Cathi you know what I like to read and my wide range of the books I read. So yes winning these books would fit in with me fine. Just would move them to the top of the 50+ books pile I am working on.
I’d like to be entered for the books. I enjoyed the interview and how you brought in subjects & events related to the story. By the way, when my son was born somebody gave me the “train up your child” book. I was amazed to find you guys discussing it on here the other day. I read through about half and not sure what I think about it. Your blog is great and I enjoy the intellectual discussions…though sometimes I feel it might be alittle over my head
Heather, MS, David, Ryan and Cathy — thanks for stopping by and the comments. Really appreciate it!
Jennette — Let’s face it, parenting is tough. No one on Earth has all the answers. The best thing that can happen is for the child to have God change their heart someday. Until then, we need to read lots, dialog with other parents we respect, and pray hard. Hope for the best.
BTW, there are no parenting methods advocated in my books…
…unless you want negative examples…and maybe one extremely positive one.
Jennette, there is an online library of perspectives and info from across the spectrum of Christian thinking at “Why Not Train A Child”. The main concern is that not just the one child mentioned in the interview has died due to “extreme parenting,” but also 7-year-old Sean Paddock in 2004.
We’re very thankful to Kerry for helping raise awareness and promote open discussion on parenting freely in Christ. The thing Dave and I feel is important is not really “how well does this method work?” but “how does the underlying theology influence the use of commonly recognized parenting techniques?”
In the case of TTUAC, we were really surprised to find such a thick layer of non-Gospel theology. We’re grateful to Marc Schooley for helping us parse the various factors involved.
Thanks for the great interview. I loved the first book. I can’t wait to check out the second book. God bless and keep up the good work.
In Him,
Joseph
First off, I would like to say this is an excellent interview. I love a great story but more than that, I love to know there is true meaning behind it. I have not had the pleasure of reading Kerry’s work yet but do plan to acquire copies soon. I have only heard wonderful things.
I love that you mention our founding fathers and the fact that our Constitution is based on God’s Natural Law and not man’s. Wow! So many do not know this or choose to ignore it. Excellent!
I will post a link on my facebook . Thanks for doing this interview, Cat.
Thanks for the chance to enter for your books, Kerry. My wife and i are still paying off the adoption bills
Thanks for the interview too, great job C.L.
I enjoyed reading the interview, and hope to read the books soon. (Thanks for the opportunity to win them!)
Great interview! Please enter me for a chance to win the books
.
Oh, these books sounds wonderful – great interview! I’d love to win them, and I have a feeling that I’ll be reading them one way or another regardless
Well, first of all, guess I will just have to put your website under “my favs” because this is , truthfully, a whole new world for me! Diane Graham (who I affectionately call “Lady Di”) has opened up my realm with this type of Christian gendre and it is expanding my vision and breaking me out of a box. So, I guess it would be better to read the first book so as to understand “The Superlative Stream” eh? I am intrigued about the Sharia law and the extreme that religion versus relationship can create. My son-n-law is English and in the Queen’s army going off to Afganistan in a couple of weeks. He has opened my understanding of how the Muslim law is taking over and swallowing up cities like London, Liverpool etc. It was so subtle at first, and now is like a weed that has choked out any Christianity other than going underground. Christianity is drying up in Europe. I know that there will be a great harvest at the end…but I am not quite sure of what will bring that about. I believe Kerry is a visionary more than a fiction writer. The same goes for Diane. You will definitely be interviewing her some day , Cat! Her book is life changing. Both are nuance writers that are dimensional. Back to the founders, after hearing about the 13 story Mosque being built just feet away from Ground Zero, The dedication ceremony being September 11, 2011, I wondered what it is they would feel if transported to present. Would they say that Freedom of religion meant freedom of denomination under the one true God? And I wonder too, is our country heading for sharia law too? Thank you for opening up my world, and I would just be honored to read Kerry Nietz book and to receive this great art too.
Patrice, just to keep myself sorted, we’re drawing for a separate set of art prints, not Kerry’s cover art. Sorry if I made that confusing! You can comment to enter for the art prints over at this post.
Lots going on here.
I’m new to all this, but will you sign me up anyway?
Of course!
I can see that I am going to have to read Kerry’s books! (Looks shiftily around house, trying to imagine a space big enough to fit more books in….)
Great interview & discussion.
I loved ASCS and look forward to jumping into TSS right after I finish Eternity Falls.
I love letting character backgrounds & world details flow organically when writing. It always gives me a sense of wonder and discovery when I’m in the middle of a scene and suddenly I learn a new bit of background about a place, event or character.
Stuart, thanks for stopping by. My kids have dog-eared Starfire, and I hope you’ve got another round coming.
Yes, I think characters–as much as possible–should be revealed just like we learn about peopel in real life: A little at a time, letting their own words and actions define them.
I once came across a whole method for inventing characters — their quirks, preferences, unique sayings and such.
Nah. Didn’t work for me.
Stuart (if you get time to come back), you spent a long time developing Starfire. Since you write organically as well, I’m curious about the balance of on-the-page development to background worldbuilding. For instance, one of my acquaintances, probably the most successful full-time, full-indie writer I’ve met, has created a personal encyclopedia to keep track of his multi-novel universe.
I’ll need to create an encyclopedia at some point.
Right now everything is contained in a big pile of various notebooks, sketchbooks and coputer files…plus more that is rattling around in my brain.
I think the balance of what’s on the page to what’s unseen in the background is different for every writer. It’s hard to think of my actual ratio since it is very different depending on what is being talked about.
For Sauria and the stories set in that universe, I have a basic timeline that charts out the major events of the world, but I don’t go into a lot of detail about those events byeond just what I think they are all about.
Then as I write new events pop-up as characters reveal them, or more information (possibyl incorrect information) about some of the other events show up as well as Characters reveal what they know.
I will say that in order to really let the background flow organically as you write, you have to have a very firm grasp on the funamentals of your world and the rules that govern it.
As far as writing organically with a plot, I tend to have a good skeleton of the plot first and then see how the rest of the story grows off of that.
I’m learning a bit about you three characters right now
And the most unusual character of them all, in the house…
Marc, I recall you saying once that you see a story all at once, the whole thing, or something to that effect. For me, it’s more like a journey in the dark, with glimpses here and there that I try to make my way towards. At times I feel like a bit of a fail as an off-the-cuff writer, but I know if I switch to an outline method, it becomes nothing but academic. The magic’s gone.
That said, I wrote my first completed WIP off an outline, one which changed constantly and contained very little detail. It helped me remember what I’d envisioned.
Interesting that this should come up. I’m editing Legendary Space Pilgrims from the final critiques as we speak, and there is a lot of talk about how the characters developed. I like to outline roughly, sort of down to the one sentence per scene level so that I know what’s happening, but I cannot do any character work before starting to write except for basic appearance maybe. In Pilgrims it became inherently obvious that I was getting to know the characters as I wrote, but then they were getting to know themselves as well, and moving from repression to freedom of personality. For me that is the magic – to take an outline knocked together in a matter of hours, and spend years of my life getting acquainted with the people who arise from that.
I can relate to that! Most of my character work pre-writing involves a rough sketch of what the character looks like, a basic description, what their favorite weapons are and a paragraph or so (if they are a major character) about their motivations at the start of the book. All of that usually gives me a good sense of their personalities. After that it’s all about seeing how they react to what I throw at them.
“For me, it’s more like a journey in the dark, with glimpses here and there that I try to make my way towards.”
This sounds like an exciting way to experience it, sort of seeing the tale unfold as you write it. I believe this is how Stephen King reports his experience of writing.
“At times I feel like a bit of a fail as an off-the-cuff writer, but I know if I switch to an outline method, it becomes nothing but academic.”
Perfect explanation of the problem from both sides. But, then, followed by a solution:
” WIP off an outline, one which changed constantly and contained very little detail. It helped me remember what I’d envisioned.”
This last may be what I’m describing, evidently poorly, only with a mental outline, or view of the tale, instead of a written one. I mean, sometimes the characters say things to me like “You idiot. I wouldn’t do that. This is what I would do or say.” And, at other times, things just appear and disappear, demanding attention or fizzling into nothingness. Yeah…I’d say what you’ve described is pretty close.
And, I’m just getting going at this as well, as you know. The whole process fascinates me: the manner in which a story in picture form in a mind is developed and translated to a language medium, complete with certain craft rules and customs, which is then read by another and translated into a story in picture form, and, hopefully, emotions, thoughts, truths, interpretations, and memories.
I love hearing how you guys and gals write. (What writer doesn’t?)
>>”At times I feel like a bit of a fail as an off-the-cuff writer, but I know if I switch to an outline method, it becomes nothing but academic. The magic’s gone.”
I can’t develop characters or outline beforehand, either. It’s like making a judgement on someone I’ve never met, or trying to describe a place or events I’ve never experienced. It’ll always be flat. So I follow a new acquaintance through their life and world until I know it by heart and they’re a good friend (or good enemy). Somewhere along the way the events of their life take on the suspicious shape of a plot and somehow *by magic* (um, much woolgathering and nail-biting) it all works out. I guess that’d be called organic writing?
I’ve tried to put myself in Remedial Outline 101. But then, trying to part a writer from their method is probably akin to trying to make a fish breathe out of water. If you got gills, I say swim.
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So here’s a question for you writers: How do your book ideas start? The intial inkling, I mean? For me, it is almost always the flash of an image or two. For instance, with A Star the first thing I saw was a man–that I thought of at the time as a robot-psychologist–sitting across from a huminoid robot trying to diagnose him. I also saw an image of the bot in pieces.
Then I had my mystery…
Dreams. I rarely remember what I dream, but sometimes it’s very vivid and it’s like I can feel the story in behind the image sequence, waiting to be found. You know that feeling when you read a book and it’s larger than the pages and the mere facts of its storyline?
In the end, I may not actually use the dream scene, but that’s where my characters find birth, because they’re completely free of my skeptic streak, and they can actually live long enough not to get killed by it.
I think the only one I’ve worked for any length on that I started while awake is The Moonborn Code. I have a couple of others, but one jammed on a plot turn, and the other…is beautiful enough to wait a bit for.
I may see or hear something and it settles in my head. Once there, it germinates and grows until there is no room left in my head and I must write it. The story will take over my thoughts and dreams. It kind of reminds me of those sequences in a cartoon where everything looks like food to the hungry character. For me, everything looks like the story, the characters and the world. Does that make sense? My characters start as a nuance of what they will become. They tell me how it is going to be as the story runs its path.
So does that mean we’re all characters in your stories?
That’s one of my favorite threats: Be nice to me, or I’ll write about you!
Pen is mightier than the sword, ya know…
One of the funniest writer threats I’ve seen was on a friend’s Facebook:
“I’m a writer. If you’re mean to me, I’ll put you in my novel and kill you.” (LGP)
Holly, I love it!
I do write about people, I mean here in the posts I do, but it’s only the awesome ones that make it into a Scienda vignette.
This comment threading with the template changes is pushing me over the edge. Completely. As of Monday night, it will all be better.
A lot of my story ideas build off of themselves, but the intial inkling usually comes from seeing a world, or wondering how something would work out.
For Starfire, that started off as a completely different story, but I became enamoured with Rathe and decided to backtrack to a point where he changed everything.
I have another fantasy that I had started working on before Starfire got published, that began when I saw a substance called aerogel that is very very heat resistant and wondered how something like that might aid a dragonslayer in a steam-punk world.
“I saw a substance called aerogel”
Man, Stuart, you know about the aerogel, huh? Gonna have to call out the men in the black suits…:)
Occasionally by dreams; more often it starts out with a sci-fi what-if question which leads to the how, when, what and who. Like…what if none of this was real? Often asked, I know, but I first had that one way before the Matrix, lol, and it turned into the book Faith Awakened. Or…what if a bunch of kids all born in the same minute could somehow all be given superpowers? That’s the Comet Born serial running over at Digital Dragon right now – see digitaldragonmagazine.net – it started in March.
It doesn’t take much to find an idea like that. The other 99%, as they say, is perspiration.
Yeah, often my dreams seem compeling and amazing just after I’ve had them. I’ve even written a few down in the middle of the night because I thought they were so great.
Then the next morning, after breakfast, I’m like “What the what? This is gibberish!”
Grace dear! Did you sleep at all yet, with your editing?
LOL Kerry, you could always write a Bonds-style spoof…
And perhaps I will. I think I’ll do one centered around hi-tech…dinosaurs!
heeheeheeeee
(Stop stalking me Stuart! )
Of course I slept! Just not when you did, lol. And not very long – it’s VERY cold here right now and my house isn’t insulated or heated. But they say the cold is better for stimulating the brain. So far, I have to agree.
All right, I have to go offline to do this edit, or I’ll keep getting distracted…
Unpublished though I may be, I have started enough stories that has either been left behind in time or still has a strong ember within me that I know they will get finished one day as long as I may live that I will give a stab to answer this question.
For me, my stories start in different ways. Sometimes it’s just as simple as me being at the keyboard and thinking of two random words that normally wouldn’t go together and then finding a way to create a sentence from them. That becomes the first sentence and I write from there. Usually though, that’s just an exercise to get my creative juices going (see how much of a story you can come up with starting with these two words used in the first sentence: ibuprofen & crab – e-mail me with your result at beyondthecharts@beyondthecharts.com – not a contest, but something to talk about – just let it be a freeflow kind of thing and when you get to your stopping point where you can’t think too much on it, you’re done!)
One time I started a story with a sentence where I flipped the usual order of the words by accident and was a few sentences later when I saw it and decided it worked. It’s a great opening line that I won’t mention here as I intend to complete that story, but I got my story from it since before I noticed how I wrote the line I really didn’t know what I would write about and was just writing. Once I noticed it, I knew what had to be written. It was like the whole story just started unfolding before my eyes.
A lot of times I might get an image in my head of something, usually the “opening” scene. When this happens, I usually don’t write right away. I’ll think on it and try to figure out what’s happening with it. Sometimes the story will just come to me then and I’ll pretty much know what’s going to happen from beginning to end that I need to have in the story. Then it’s just a matter of writing it out and seeing what else happens. Not long after the Columbine shooting I started a novel like that. I saw two students approaching each other in the hallway and I knew that one of them was going to do something really bad, while the other one was a really good guy that could hang with anyone and that they were good friends. Then I had to figure out from there where the story would go. Once I had my ending, I started writing.
Over the years, for the most part, I don’t write notes. My general thought is that if it’s a good enough idea it will stick with me. And that’s usually the case. Then a while back some ideas that I really liked started to elude me when I would try to remember them. Now I try to write down those ideas when I really like them at first. Others I let go of. Some of those come back, some don’t. But I’m making sure I don’t let any more that I like escape me on that first go round in case I may want to use them later on.
When I’m writing a novel, I have all the information within me. It’s coming from me anyway, so I should know what the story is if it’s there to be told. Sometimes I’m writing and the story unfolds as I write, while other times I know exactly where I’m going because the story has already unfolded for me. That’s the difference – usually – of whether I started writing before I’ve thought things out. Typically, I try to have the whole story (not word for word, mind you) in my mind before I start on it, so that way I know what I’ll be writing. I read a comment (I thought on here so I could quote it exactly, but after looking around maybe not) about how in an interview Ted Dekker had mentioned having about three other complete stories going on in his head that he hadn’t written down yet. As long as he meant that he didn’t have the word for word novel in his head, then I can relate to that as right now I can pluck a few stories that have floated in my head for quite some time and if you were here I could tell you what I know about them.
So, I don’t use an outline. In fact, when I was in chat session recently sharing a story I’m writing with a fellow author who has commented on here, that person asked me to send them my outline. I said I didn’t have one. It’s all in my head. That person had to go so it was insisted that I took the time to write it down. So I had to actually write an “outline” down for this person. It was late at night and I didn’t finish it, so I sent what I had written. To me, writing an outline is time better spent writing the story going on inside of me. An outline is the story without the details. Since I already know that, I want to find out the details. As I use up enough time with other things than just writing as it is, when I’m sitting down for my story, I want to actually be WRITING it, and not writing down everything I already have in my head about it.
Oh, and although I’ve had a lot of interesting dreams over the years – some being prophetic dreams – I have never, and I mean NEVER, been lead to turn any of them into a story. I can’t say that won’t change one day, but for now, that is NOT an avenue my story ideas have approached me from. They prefer parkways and boulevards.
So for better or worse, that’s how I come up with my ideas. Hope it either helps you out or maybe you find it entertaining.
COOL INTERVIEW – wow… I’m impressed! I love reading good interviews… like meaningful ones, not just superficial. I’ve loved all your blog posts on the whole obedience “training” thing…
(oh, and you are right, we do need to “catch up” – I miss you!!)
Blessings,
Shannon
The best insight thus far was the mad Texan learning about everyone from their posts. Almost a meta insight or something.
I once interviewed Ted Dekker (see http://www.contend4thefaith.org) and at that time (Saint era) he said he had three complete novels in his head that he hadn’t typed up yet. I often have three complete words. For me, I have to type. Many of my raw ideas spring out of research and observing life, the news and so on, but I almost never figure much out unless I’m actually banging away on a keyboard, and my final paragraphs of the day usually involve material that I had no clue about before I started typing. Sort of like my online comment postings.
That leads me to the Ezzo/GCGW/GFI controversy. There’s no doubt that’s a mess but Kerry has winnowed out some of the chaff and kept the wheat, so to speak. I haven’t seen him endorsing the whole package, or I’d be worried. Here’s a timeline and summary of their deceit and cultic track record: http://www.ezzo.info/Timeline/timeline1.htm
Here’s a CT article on the Ezzos’ former churches (yes, plural) declaring Gary unfit for ministry: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/november13/6.70.html
To bring it full circle, my neighbor last week became the first non-family member to finish reading the current draft of my novel titled Reap The Whirlwind. He knew the Ezzo clan when he lived in CA years ago and corroborates the accuracy of the accusations in all areas that he had any personal knowledge. Like what the Dycks have done, CRI did a careful extensive investigation and published an article on the cultic characteristics of GFI:
http://www.equip.org/articles/the-cultic-characteristics-of-growing-families-international
And, one last article:
http://www.ivillage.com/ezzo-parenting-threat-babys-health/6-a-127265
Bottom line, the parallels between “growing kids God’s way” and “parenting in the name of God” go far beyond the similar names.
First, Stuart, my kids were leaning over my shoulder when I pulled up the blog here, and they saw your name in the comments and all went, “Stuart!!!” The fan club has landed. You’re a rock star, baby.
We should probably do an interview, or at least a review.
Oh, wait, I hear the Tiger Lily (10-year-old) would like to write the review for Scienda. This child is socially fearless, and loves blog interaction. You will also be reviewed with startling precociousness, I’m sure.
Okay, you have GOT to write the aerogel idea. Pleeeeeeeeeeze. I LOVE steampunk! This is an official Catbert request.
I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who ends up meandering through massive story realms. I have stuff from 15 years ago that’s still not done showing itself enough to be written.
Second, from over on today’s post, we were dealing recently with a cyberstalker harassing someone who’s left the kind of circles Hillary McFarland’s interview discusses. The kids speak Mitch Bonds very fluently, and they made some remarks about how nice it would be if villains actually did monologue.
I’m like, “This one did…which, yes, is how he got busted…”
Laughter to the ceilings.
“usually involve material that I had no clue about before I started typing. Sort of like my online comment postings.”
Ratbert, you darling troublemaker, you. Don’t you know? That’s why we keep you around.
Waves to Shannon!
Being a Rock Star has it’s disadvantages… the pyrotechnics are always setting off sprinkler systems at work.
An interview would be fun. And tell Tiger Lily that I just can’t wait to read her review!
As far as the aerogel inspired story, it will be a while probably but I do want to return to it as well. Has a great cast of characters, including one that nobody can remember.
Ah yes, Stuart just has that rock star persona. He’s like a lost Jonas brother or Hannah Montana or something. Next we’ll be forced to watch him in 3-D on the big screen.
Hey, Randy, thanks for showing up! Appreciate your comments.
(Did I mention there’s no parenting methods advocated in my books? )
That aside, I can’t understand how anyone would purposely starve their baby, and if that was in the babywise book, then somehow my wife totally missed it. Goes back to using your head. If you follow the typical schedule of doctor checkups with your infant, you’re in there like every week for the first month, and once a month after that. It is fairly easy to tell if things are going wrong. That’s why I think a portion (possibly a large portion) of the reponsibility in these “failure to thrive” cases has to be laid on the parents’ shoulders. It’s like: He told me I could fly. I fell and broke my arm. Must need a higher roof!
And while I’m playing devil’s advocate, I think some of the things listed on those Ezzos sites–after having studied them–detract from the argument they are trying to make. For instance, talking about the marital status of a couple, or their relationship to their children– to me–doesn’t necessarily make the case. As far as we know, someone is still mad because their cat got run over, ya know?
That said, clearly there are many things in those sites that makes one go “hmmm” and reinforces my earlier point of: read the word, pray diligently, listen to God, and use your head.
Kerry, let me get this straight–you write incessantly about GCGW (your novels are essentially ads) and anyone who disagrees is the Whore of Babylon (or married to her). Oh wait, that’s the kind of excess we find from the other Randy and the other Bernard. I’m pretty sure that I’m having an identity crisis, thanks to Cat’s meddling in the affairs of men. Then again, I’m supposed to be Randall Bernhardt, but when I was born, my dad thought his name was Bernard. He didn’t see the birth certificate until years later. Illiterate Mennonites…
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Brandt, you are OUTRAGEOUS. Oh, man, I needed that right now.
BTW, I think my kids are suffering some of the same crises. They’re now referring to Kerry Nietz as “Kerry Or.”
Howzat, dino spoofer? Punkd by the tricycle motors!
OK, I take the whole premise of my books back. Freedom is overrated and children should be implanted at birth with a controlling device that causes them to say “Ez-zo” whenever they get out of line…and especially when they name ME after a flipping dinosaur!
(…because that’s something only I can do…um…to my own children……sort a…)
Long live the Mighty T Rex!!!
“BTW, I think my kids are suffering some of the same crises. They’re now referring to Kerry Nietz as “Kerry Or.”
HA! Now that wins the thread!
DRAW IS OFFICIALLY CLOSED. Chatter may continue at will. Thanks to Kerry and everyone who’s joined in here.
Thanks again for having me, CathiLyn! And thanks to everyone who chimed in. Twas fun!
You bet. Next time there’s an interesting true fact in the area, I’ll call the Marcher Lord folks. You guys were great to have on this.
I’m still chuckling over the Kerry Or wisecrack. You guys are priceless!
It’s Dave’s side of the gene pool, I swear it is…
We’re going to have to install sprinker systems on this blog. Even more than a review, the Tiger Lily has hard-hitting questions she wants to ask Stuart. The swashbuckling continues…
Check back in about half an hour, and you’ll be among the first to see the announcement on our incoming guest blogger. I can’t wait to see what mayhem results from this drastic maneuver.
Forgive me glossing over what was such a lovely interview. And most for making short work of mentioning Kerry’s wonderful novels. I just finished the second, “The Superlative Stream”, and will begin the third tomorrow (drat delayed gratification) after such mundane things as laundry and making dinner. *sigh*
Rarely in Christian fiction do I find praise for God welling up in me as I did when reading the beautifully titled “A Star Curiously Singing” and its sequel. What an amazing sensation. It was almost unwitting, and that time spent in praise of Him made my day!!
But Ms. Dyck–please don’t be so hasty to seemingly condemn homeschooling, through guilt by association. My husband and I had our first child in 1981 and our last in 1995. We were there, raising our kiddos when the Ezzos rose to popularity. One look in a bookstore convinced us their ideas were not for us, but we did have dear friends with an out of control son who actually tried the “blanket across our laps means Mommy and Daddy alone time” method. (Yeah, it did no good. It’s tough to build on a faulty premise.)
However, we also homeschooled our gifts from God, as we believed God willed. Our children are all pretty much grown now, and are loving, hard working, respectful, college educated (Dean’s list and everything!), productive, fantastic people. I don’t mean to imply that we give homeschooling the credit for that–clearly any glory there is God’s. But I do think it’s a great way to educate children, and it has helped make and keep our family close.
And most importantly, not all Christian parents who choose to homeschool are whackos. Nor are we all suscpetible to unbiblical beliefs.
I do apologize for defending homeschooling based on one little remark. It’s simply that we know so many marvelous young adults who grew up in homeschooling families: doctors, missionaries, veterinarians, nurses, teachers, engineers, and “ordinary” people who love Jesus and have learned to be in the world but not of it. We know kids who were educated in government schools who are just as terrific, too, of course. But I fear for the future of the homeschool movement that so many people fought hard to make legal.
I see trends in this country that mirror those in Europe, and the freedom for parents to educate their children as they see fit appears to be vanishing there. Our president spoke about strengthening the federal government’s grasp on education law in his most recent address to the nation.
So many people under 35 don’t seem to realize there was no federal Department of Education before the late1970s. Constitutionally, education legislation belongs to the states. But if things continue in the trends being followed currently, private and home schools may no longer be a legal option in the land of the free. And I suspect if will be our own faults.
Thanks for allowing me to speak my mind. Thanks for an interview that was such a pleasure to read. And thanks, Kerry, for sharing your God given gifts with me. You took ordinary words and put them together in such a way that my spirit rose up in spontaneous praise to the Living God. That’s a gift I’d receive (and pay for!) as often as you’d like to make it available.
Thanks for commenting, Ellie. I love Kerry’s work too.
“But Ms. Dyck–please don’t be so hasty to seemingly condemn homeschooling, through guilt by association.”
Ellie, if you read a bit more around the blog, you’ll find that I was homeschooled from K-7 by parents who pioneered here in Canada, and my husband was HS’ed from Gr. 8-12. Our children, the oldest of whom is now 15, are entirely home-educated.
Please don’t be too quick to condemn me for standing up to hyper-authoritarian methodologies that have been demonstrated to have negative effects on child development.
I feel pretty strongly that it’s my duty as a longtime member of the HS community to engage in discussion on these things, in good part so that our autonomy is not removed by outside authorities who claim there’s not enough HS “supervision” by “those who know best.”
We’re on the same page–this interview’s comments section just happened to turn into a lively debate, because there was much in the media about Michael Pearl right then, and I had also just run an interview with Hillary MacFarland regarding her book on extreme patriocentricity (Quivering Daughters).
Thanks for adding this info to the thread. I believe it’s important for people to understand as well. People need to understand that when we get talking about problem factors, that’s the HS community taking responsibility for itself to educate among parenting peers and filter out poor materials.
Wow, what a nice surprise. Thanks for your kind comments. I’m honored that something I wrote could lead to your praise of the Almighty. I can think of no higher compliment. Thanks again.
(…and wow, has it really been almost two years since this interview? Time flies!)