hen I see a point of academic debate, my gut instinct is to poke fun at it. Now, I’ve seen it about lately that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. (I.e., the Christian God is extraordinary — an acknowledgement for which I thank atheists — therefore any evidence for the God claim would have to be of some extraordinary quality.)
With my humour hat on, and at the risk of evincing a rarified combination of hubris and tomfoolery, I’d like to offer the following, proposed here last year by a random stranger from the ex-religionist camp:
You may…have once been a confused agnostic…I would say you most certainly were not an atheist, previous to becoming a Christian.
Surely no one who’s truly convinced about the non-existence of god(s) could become persuaded of such a foolish, uninformed position as Bible-believing Christianity. Indeed, it might even qualify as an extraordinary evidence. Both Christians and atheists seem willing to admit it’s a rarity, at the very least.
Now, with atheists dismissing me as confused, and most Christians giving me a blank stare or assuming I once had a pact with the devil, either way it appears I’m a deluded fool. I must not have really understood the truth of my background.
No problem. I’ll let thinking readers be the judge of that.
Scope of the Question
First, I should define the range and variety of my background. Really, “freethinker” is the most accurate word to encompass most of our family. The branches of the tree include solid atheism, thoughtful agnosticism/general skepticism, nominal Christian affiliation, and a small handful of what you might call those born-again crazies. These days, I’m in the latter category.
Pragmatic Secularism
We have a few who have no regard for religion because religion’s kind of beside the point. It’s nice, if you’re that sort, but…These folk are moral, loving people, but very pragmatic about getting through life. This is probably the one category I’ve never spent time in.
Intellectual Atheism
My grandparents became atheists due to an extended investigation of survival of personal consciousness after death. Their conclusion, after much reading and direct investigation of claimed phenomena such as mediums and channelers, was that the afterlife is a hoax. One of my grandmother’s favourite sayings has always been, “I don’t believe in heaven or hell. The only heaven or hell is what you make for yourself in this life.”
When my grandfather passed away a few years ago, the instructions in his will were to dump his ashes on the ground, not to put too fine a point on it. My grandmother considered the idea of deep grief illogical. I don’t mean she was cold about it, not at all; just that as far as she was concerned, it was not a reflex to be associated with higher reasoning, given the non-persistence of consciousness. Shades of nihilism in vivo, at least on the question of natural death.
…And Its Grandchildren
Most of my generation who fall into the atheist segment of the family are those who lived most closely with Grandma and Granddad. Our family was a pretty close one, still is, and I can recall many an evening spent discussing critical thinking, worldviews and applied living.
We were raised to be moral inasmuch as it made social sense. Reciprocity and altruism as two sides of a coin. Born-and-raised churchgoers tend not to be familiar with this concept, but morality can hold the function of a non-aggression/quid pro quo treaty, according to survival of the species. For instance, a relative once said to me that there may be no such thing as “selfishness” as long as both parties derive some benefit — whatever that may mean to them.
Many of our immediate family’s discussions centered around reducing the world religions from their multitude of superstitions and contradictions to what can be universally agreed upon as effective living principles, and whether it’s possible to formulate an enlightened future for humanity on those terms. We still talk about that stuff.
Agnosticism
We also have several agnostics among us. As with my atheists, they’re all considerate, thoughtful explorers of life. They ask questions. They examine everything. They maintain an interest in unsolved questions, but ultimately retain the approach of skepticism toward biblical claims, as with other forms of theism. Open fascination with the possibility of what’s out there beyond the material brings a sense of wonder to the conversations we have.
Setting a Course
Though I tried to see the world through hopeful agnosticism, even to experience some kind of spirituality that lined up with the spiritual/supernatural claims I encountered, neither my thought experiments nor my pragmatic explorations succeeded in that. (As a secular unschooler until high school, raised by critical thinkers, I was widely read at an early age, and given a practical education in discussion and analysis of these things.) It seemed to me the most reasonable position was to become a grownup about it and reduce the dataset to what I did observe, and reasonable understandings thereof, not what I might hope to observe or could possibly, theoretically observe someday. Through my last year of high school and as I entered university, my reading became much more oriented to the atheist/naturalist position, and I settled into it as the most sensible life path.
Available Witnesses
During this time, I was dating Mr. Adventurepants, better known around here by the unassuming alter ego of “Dave.” We broke up three times in six months over religion, as I tried to sway him from his unenlightened dogmas. He was on the lam from religious orthodoxy at the time, at least in lifestyle terms, so his family was doubly horrified to find themselves witness to it all. They don’t generally show up here at Scienda, but you can ask Dave what it was like dating an ardent anti-theist evangelist.
For my family’s part, my unexpected conversion to Christian theism was the point of consternation. Had I checked my brain at the door? Had I caved to some sort of brainwashing in order to fit my life to a man’s? As Dave’s parents heaved a sigh of relief to see our relationship stabilize, mine looked horror in the eye and bravely called it ‘daughter.’ (I get along great with my family these days, for the record.)
Last summer, the incorrigible philosopher/theologian Quixote sidled on over and asked me about my background, warning that he might want to quote me on it. I was not overly impressed with this intrusion, so I clobbered him with the brute facts via email. And thus a capital friendship was born.
So, while not a direct nor a long-time observer, Quixote is thus summarily familiar with my background via the rather starkly-worded explanation he received, along with a number of conversations since.
The Incredible Journey
…And I use the word “incredible” in its driest possible sense. What will the non-theist bridge club think? Well, I don’t much care. I wouldn’t be a freethinker if I were worried about conformity to externally imposed preconceptions. It’s on this very value that my family loves me the way I am, and I love them the way they are.
I acquiesce to an ultimately extraordinary God, in the person of Jesus Christ as expressed in the Bible; I’d invite those who desire extraordinary evidence to consider the fact that He reaches even me.
Related posts:
Well, seeing as you are not here, just get back to me when you can.
Thanks for this. It always amuses me that people who value the intellect over all are so often confounded when some silly little thing like love gets in the way and redirects your perceptions back to reality. And for the record, I’m not talking about “Mr. Adventurepants” here (I’m not sure how I’d react if the Princess Bride ever called me that, BTW…)
It is not by our persuasive and deep arguments that people will know. Jesus said it is by our fruit (including the love we have for each other) that we will be known (and through us, Him).
Cool stuff.
Comprehensive thoughts here! As someone who is both a freethinker and a devout Christian, I appreciate what you’ve written. Good job!
Thanks, Katie!
“seeing as you are not here, just get back to me when you can.”
Well, I acknowledge that I’m not *all* here, but I was actually just in the “back room” tidying up a post for next week…dusting off my shopkeeper’s apron and bustling out to the front now…shooing chickens, chastising Gonzo on the way by…
“some silly little thing like love gets in the way and redirects your perceptions back to reality.”
Hank, that’s profound. Thank you. While everyone’s personal perspective on naturalism is their own, mine has been that permission to feel what one feels, without contorting the heart through cold reason, can be a difficult matter resulting in great human struggle. We are innately more than we see.
Over at Quixote’s place the other day, Shema asked the following questions about the naturalistic perspective:
Very important considerations.
“I’m not sure how I’d react if the Princess Bride ever called me that, BTW…”
Ha! Heather is actually a culprit here, having been known to refer to Shamus as Mr. Awesomepants. We have some longsuffering guys. Gotta love ‘em for it.
Thanks for the encouragement.
this is great – brings me comfort to know i’m not alone in my round about way to Christ – largely through my freakin intellect! Though now that i’ve been a Christian going on 8 yrs it just feels like home and that old me – that me that was searching and looking and unsatisfied w/ science and rationalism as a god – that me is seems so small to me now.
thanks for a great post
Oh, cool, now I feel less alone too! Thanks for sharing that!
“Now, I’ve seen it about lately that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
Except they don’t. They just require…evidence.
“the Christian God is extraordinary — an acknowledgement for which I thank atheists”
Nice line, CD…kinda jealous of that one
“Surely no one who’s truly convinced about the non-existence of god(s) could become persuaded of such a foolish, uninformed position as Bible-believing Christianity.”
A rarity, perhaps, but don’t call me Shirley.
“My grandmother considered the idea of deep grief illogical. I don’t mean she was cold about it,”
Good for her. There’s much to be said in favor of this.
“the incorrigible philosopher/theologian Quixote”
Incorrigible in the properly basic sense, I’m sure. Sort of like a headache, I suppose…
“And thus a capital friendship was born.”
I quite agree, but for the record, I had an honest purpose for asking at the time, rather than simply being intrusive.
“I wouldn’t be a freethinker if I were worried about conformity to externally imposed preconceptions.”
I agree you’re a freethinker. Your background seems to indicate you were at least once a freethinker. However, the definition of freethought I’m familiar with precludes the reliance or belief in revelation in one’s thought, among other things. Given that, I doubt you qualify. Nevertheless, I’ve always considered it odd that freethought excludes certain thoughts from the set of acceptable thoughts, but I think the idea is that one is free from thought imposed from above.
“It’s on this very value that my family loves me the way I am, and I love them the way they are.”
Bravo.
“I’d invite those who desire extraordinary evidence to consider the fact that He reaches even me.”
Truly a miracle every time it happens. Thanks for the extraordinary evidence.
Dear ol’ charognard…
“They just require…evidence.”
As we discussed and agreed on elsewhere, hence the tomfoolery of this entire essay.
“A rarity, perhaps, but don’t call me Shirley.”
Dave: Coulda called you Roger, but you didn’t look too jello-y.
Cat: Stop that silliness!
“Incorrigible in the properly basic sense, I’m sure. Sort of like a headache, I suppose…”
There’s a pill for headaches.
“I had an honest purpose for asking at the time, rather than simply being intrusive.”
It was your purpose I found mildly intrusive, not you. After all, we keep letting you come back. Don’t worry, you’re highly forgivable.
“I’ve always considered it odd that freethought excludes certain thoughts from the set of acceptable thoughts, but I think the idea is that one is free from thought imposed from above.”
“Thanks for the extraordinary evidence.”
Same to you, my friend.
“Cat: Stop that silliness!”
Roger, Roger.
Over, Oveur…
Precisely what Dave was saying as he walked away from the computer desk…
[facepalm]
We can’t do over easy over, Captain O, Over…..
Loved this post, though some of the comments are whizzing past me.
My husband was also once an atheist. I plan on sending him over for a read when I can get his attention.
“some of the comments are whizzing past me.”
Heh, yeah, those who’ve been around awhile have settled in comfortably.
Quixote is philosopher/theologian/author Marc Schooley. (He and my husband Dave share twin senses of humour, often revolving around Leslie Nielsen, Peter Sellers and John Cleese. ) I just noticed Paul had Metamorphosis on his reading group. If you want to read an interesting post about that, Marc wrote a great one awhile ago.
Paul, if you get time to pop by here, I’m delighted to read someone who quotes it in the “gang oft agley” format…might have to join you for the Odyssey.
Oh, I get the Neilsen bit. It’s the association between Roger and jello that I’m struggling with.
I had so much to say about Metamorphosis during that reading, but never posted. The connections between that reading and what was happening in our real world at just that time was haunting, but would have been highly inappropriate to discuss publicly. A dark read at a dark time, worthwhile though. I’ll check out Marc’s thoughts.
I sent Paul a link to you. He’ll be poking his head in soon.
“It’s the association between Roger and jello that I’m struggling with.”
Who knows…I’ve given up trying to understand them when they get going…something about someone turning to jello in fright or something, I think. There could also be a sleep-deprivation factor in there.
“The connections between that reading and what was happening in our real world at just that time was haunting, but would have been highly inappropriate to discuss publicly.”
I understand. It’s times like that I get all old-fashioned and resort to a hardbound journal and an ink-spitting pen. As a new Christian, I collected verses and promises and scraps of ideas. Now that I’m old and cynical, I mostly just rant.
“Captain O”
Never thought of it that way, Dave. Thanks, man, if anyone down here sees this. I’ll never hear the end of it.
Roger.
Oh, but someone has, Captain O.
Hm……inexplicable.
In keeping with the OP, two links I’ve come across in the last couple of days:
What is Agnosticism…Really?
How I found God and peace with my atheist brother: PETER HITCHENS traces his journey back to Christianity
I have so many opinions, and so little time to spout them all.
So all this atheist/freethinker stuff is fascinating, but the two words that jumped out at me were “John” and “Cleese.” I’m obsessed and prudish enough that I took the Fawlty Towers series and edited out a few cuss words and questionable scenes to create my own DVD set of 10 hilarious family-friendly episodes which I inflict on unsuspecting guests. Some actually request to watch more than one, and we become instant friends.
Ratbert, my dear old fellow! I’ve been thinking lately I should drop you a line and find out whether you electrocuted yourself in the midst of all that work, or what, but I’ve been busy with my own work. Glad you’re apparently as well and sane as can be expected.
So when we come to visit you (who knows when that will be) you have the exact tools at the ready to keep my children in a zombielike state, and we can actually hear ourselves converse! Excellent thinking, my man.