Why do I have the vague, nagging sense that a Texan conspiracy theory may yet be arising here? And that it may be unflattering to my secondary linguistic persuasions?

~Boucle D’Or

I can make a suggestion for a starting place of actual biblical investigation.

For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines,
And He scourges every son whom He receives.

Hebrews 12:6

Contextually to that verse and others like it, unless we allege either a universalist salvation or a fairly liberal sense of the Roman penance, there is no correlation to be drawn between corporate judgement/discipline and Haiti. Judgement, after all, begins with the household of God. The only way to do so would be to don a cardboard sign and stand on the sidewalk warning of final doom imminent upon the rest of the globe as well, and I’m not sure the GM bailout really qualifies.

“the tolerant, loving God of 21st century western Christianity who wrings his hands over earthquakes”

…Which implies He had no control over them, and renders a functionally atheist, or perhaps sociopathic, theology to the question. Either God’s an impotent hand-wringer, or He destroyed so He could wring His hands and make the foolish worship Him for His compassion.

If we’re to consider the sovereign action of God here, we might look at His sovereignty over government, which is divinely appointed to carry out justice; He makes the nations as dust and displaces rulers like chaff. We can turn to the Old Testament or the New for that.

I would hope that the Haitian spirit fills the current void with something better than what went before. I’m not generally an optimist about these things, but it’s a very unique nation and culture. So I’m also not immune to the hope that this might become another time like the 1804 independence. These are Beverly’s people, after all. :~)

“I was called a depressing person for saying this very thing at work yesterday.”

LOL Oh my word, there’s a misconstruction of your person if I ever heard one. Clearly I’m bad for your image. Run away!!

And that’s the part that concerns me most, because it seems to me that once the dust has settled and the last body is removed, no one will care any longer. Does that mean we never genuinely cared in the first place? Not necessarily, but it does in many cases, and it belies a merely emotional response in others, amid those who demonstrate genuine concern.

“he claimed that the Haiti disaster was some sort of divine judgment”

What a great example of what Christianity becomes when it is entangled in politics. It’s not pretty, never has been. Good for your Canadian for exposing it. Pat was wrong for this comment; let’s get that part straight.

Otherwise, do you think it’s possible for us to actually know whether or not this was direct and immediate divine judgment? I’m not convinced that we can beyond the obvious point that no victims are ever innocent; however, I ask because there is another definite strain within Christianity that claims that God would never come in judgment like this now that we’re under the new covenant. Pat’s comment is seen as an Old Testament view of God, and God is no longer like that. Indeed, the Haitian earthquake pales in comparison with the flood, but the flood was God as he once was, not at all like he has become: the tolerant, loving God of 21st century western Christianity who wrings his hands over earthquakes, which, it seems to me, is a God created in the image of 21st century Western man when compared with the Biblical text.

“If God is disavowed, we’re left with nothing but random events of nature and their intersection with human self-service.”

Exactly, but since we do not disavow God, we assume he was involved in some manner, right?

“But we all die. Death is coming for you, it’s coming for your neighbour. It’s coming for me. Death has come to Haiti, and it was coming anyway.”

Well said. We should never forget this and it should color our actions, yet it’s such an unpopular message these days. I was called a depressing person for saying this very thing at work yesterday.

“Christians, the lesson is: share the riches of heaven — the temporal and the eternal. Give without thought of return.”

Point taken.

Clicking through, there is a lot of good info and cultural perspective there. I think we have to remember we can learn some things for ourselves, we can support and help, but Haiti belongs to Haitians to recover, not to us.

The perspective on the UN peacekeeping force is interesting, and I think telling. Ultimately, it’s an experiment in the pragmatics of global governance, and those nations subject to destabilized political and economic circumstances are the lab rats at the moment.

When there is a military on the ground, it defines who’s in governance. While “security” and “economic terrorism” are being put forth for basis, there are deeper issues of sovereignty in play in terms of international politics.

From your link:

While millions of dollars are being donated by governments and ordinary people to help the people of Haiti, at the same time 16,000 U.S. marines and paratroopers are now on the island to provide “security”. The U.N. has authorized an increase in their international “peacekeeping” army and police forces. The Obama administration has made it clear that any Haitian refugees after January 12th will be sent back to Haiti and already have tents prepared at Guantanamo Bay for Haitian “boat people” (economic terrorists) intercepted at sea by the U.S. Navy in case of a mass exodus.

“…entertaining none the less.”

Yep, and doesn’t fail us this time either.

I would hope most discerning atheists/skeptics would agree with your view of the man. There are many atheists I find much more respectable, and who’d make better spokespeople.