Ed Stetzer at LifeWay posted a study discussing the effects of pornography on individuals and communities. Couldn’t resist jumping in on the comments; it’s a subject close to the heart of anyone who desires to nurture a good marriage in spite of everything the world throws at us.
Dave and I discussed it briefly, and he said, “Everyone’s ‘addicted’ to sexual sin. It’s just that some are okay with that, and others aren’t.”
To take that a bit farther, I thought the one commenter who tried to dismiss the harmfulness of porn made the strongest case against it: He pointed out that porn is an aid to autoeroticism, something that ties in with the brain’s biological (not just psychological) adaptivity to conditioning, as the study mentions. I often double-check terms and definitions before spouting them off, particularly if it’s a word I haven’t used or seen used in awhile. This would be one of them. I found the definition of autoeroticism both fascinating and revealing.
1 : sexual feeling arising without known external stimulation
2 : sexual gratification obtained solely through stimulation by oneself of one’s own body
In addition to the many common effects mentioned in the study, recovering porn addicts report struggling with symptoms best described by the first definition — something that we in the church might do better not to attribute merely to “spiritual attack” or worse, “spiritual weakness.” It is very disturbing to them and leaves them completely shaken, often feeling utterly helpless and like complete hypocrites.
Now I’m sure dissenters would give me flack for this, but I’ve been informal counsellor to a really inexplicably wide variety of situations (often alongside my husband, thankfully). So I’ll say this: If neurology is flexible, then those suffering from the ongoing effects of autoeroticized neurology should not be treated as weak, backslidden aberrants, but given double the credit for their struggles and successes: They are facing down both the sin nature and their biological brokenness.
The dissenting commenter also brought up the subject of secular romance novels — a perennial rant topic of mine (No, I did not rant on the LifeWay blog). One of my guy friends goes even farther and classes romantic fiction in general, including the “inspirational,” as “emotion-porn.” Frankly, I think that self-centered, unrealistic emotional perspectives can be just as destructive as sexual ones. It deserves acknowledging that we also have self-oriented emotions which very much qualify as a form of lust and objectification. Husbands, by the way, do not need to be subjected to that warp of the worldview any more than wives benefit from a physical porneios mentality.
All I can say is, I’m glad for a beautiful marriage, and I’m glad to see a consistent majority of healthy, stable and fulfilled relationships among the people I know. All spiritual perspectives aside: two people choosing to put the other person first, generally works. It just isn’t the easy way to do things.
Thinking about the idea of susceptibility to porn (or any other occasion of sin) showing spiritual weakness only in others reminds me of a cute little phrase the Brits had called LMF which stood for Lacking in Moral Fiber (which during World War I was grounds for facing a firing squad). Interestingly, the guys who made the detrmination that the Tommy who broke after a week under constant shell fire was LMF always seemed to be somewhat behind the lines (like fifty miles?). The difference in spiritual warfare is, everyone’s up front and eveyone is in the crosshairs and occasionally the trigger gets pulled. The folks who are convinced they’ll never be a spiritual casualty, I think, are in denial that they could be the next one hit. I’m of the opinion that, as Christians, we should save the tut-tutting and try to pull the wounded out of the line of fire and start bandaging them.
A second thought: Ever notice that even in places where it’s perfectly legal, porn shops always seem to pop up in the sleaziest part of town? If porn is such a boon to civilization, why isn’t it at the mall between the Big Bunches and Consumers Are Us?
That’s not quite what I said. I can’t speak for women, just the guys. Every guy that I’ve talked to has admitted to have ‘trouble’ with porn in some form or another. The ones that won’t admit it show it in other ways. They just don’t say it in words. I’m thankful I’ve got a very understanding wife.
I’m sorry! Clarification obtained, my love. Yes, I recall you saying this at other times, for sure.
I can vouch for the other half…women have their own issues, whether emotional or physical. And we do need to avoid the tendency to react to the whole topic of sexual sin and holiness by taking a stance of Victorianism, which is also not healthy over the long term.
Actually, someone called out the dissenting commenter on LifeWay about whether he was attempting to justify his own non-admissive stance. I haven’t been back to see whether he ever returned, or whether the discussion continued.
I agree with Dave. My take is any guy who maintains he’s never been nor ever will be affected by it is either trying to put you on or is a Martian (they’re heavily into scales and head crests). The realistic thing, it seems to me, is to be aware of the propensity in oneself, keep an eye out for it, and (as we bead-rattlers say) avoid near occasions of sin.
In keeping with the at-the-mall thing, I noticed LifeSiteNews and a couple of the homeschooling reporting types are following a situation in Germany where 8 fathers have been jailed/fined for trying to protect their elementary-aged children from required participation in a role playing “sex ed” class which, it’s claimed, is quite explicit.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/dec/09121108.html
The final outworking of denial often tends to be criminal in a cosmic sort of way.
Julie wrote a really interesting perspective about the impact of being “one flesh” and how much we affect one another with our choices. http://wp.me/p4CL6-xS
Sex Addiction, love addiction, gambling, drugs, etc… they are all brain diseases and need to be treated as such. Addicts have trained their brains that they need the substance, (i.e. drugs, sex, gambling) for survival when they are bored, lonely, angry, stressed or tired.
An addict first must separate themselves from the addiction. There are two main parts to the brain. Prefrontal cortex (logical thinking) and Limbic system (survival) the addiction lives in the limbic system the part of the brain that focuses on survival. IT (limbic system) wants an addict to act because IT thinks an addict needs to have the substance for survival. Once a person starts to separate IT from who they are, healing can start to begin.
The affirmation, IT is addicted and IT wants to act out. I do not want to act out. I have a different course for my life.
Giving strength back to the prefrontal cortex allows an addict to start logically thinking about things again.
[edited to remove linkbait in accordance with community policy found here]
Once I was able to buy up a whole box of inspy romances for next to nothing. Of course I read them all at once. But it did really weird things to my head. Emotions were all mixed up. The romance formula sets you up to expect things to happen that just aren’t realistic – or, that something’s wrong with you if nothing like that happens. It took some time for my thought life to return to normal, and now I’m careful not to overindulge in that sort of book – harmless though it may seem.
I once found a box of old romance novels that my Mom was throwing out. As a young teen, they were VERY interesting….. NOT what a young boy, or anyone needs.
Around here, it’s more that they’ll get into my sci-fi or my doctrinal library. I won’t have them roughing up my books. At the same time, I often think about how it disconnects me from them, writing fiction that tackles adult topics.
“Mom, what are you writing?”
“I’m writing about Heremod.” Okay, but Heremod’s a study in internal corruption, actually.
However, there’s a way to show the nature of it in godly fashion rather than glorifying unhelpful perspectives. Some writers do this; others go for the frou-frou, which IMHO is beside the point.
Grace,
I quite agree. Whereas you’ve made a really cool life for yourself, I’ve seen other Christian singles retain a romance-novel approach to their singleness, and I have to wonder whether it actually makes it easier for them to find a mate, or more difficult. These women’s idea of a man? Doesn’t exist.
Men are not fictional heroes. Everything doesn’t resolve by the end of the 90,000 word count. They become our heroes after we get to know them and decide we’re willing to live with their flaws, and usually it’s because of how they handle their flaws that we find them heroic, not because of their virtues. I couldn’t care less about people’s virtues in the end. They’re usually the biggest flaws, the things people take too seriously about themselves.
At least, that’s my personal feeling. I don’t care whether a person can conquer the world or my problems (hello, that’s my job), and certainly no one’s going to “conquer” me on any level. I mean, get real. I’m blessed to live with a man who accepts that and simply loves me.
I don’t want to be conquered against my intentions (what nonsense!), I prefer to offer him my life, surrendered as a gift. And that, I think, is the huge, huge flaw in the mentality of most romantic literature and products, including the inspirational.
“(as we bead-rattlers say)”
Thanks for the grin, Walt
“Sex Addiction, love addiction, gambling, drugs, etc… they are all brain diseases and need to be treated as such.”
If they’re diseases, in the standard sense of the word disease, they’re not sin.
Yes, but if they’re diseases and not sin, you can troll the internet using the search term “sexual sin christians” and drop random comments promoting your site link and snake oil cure.
Oops, out loud. Way to make people of alternate viewpoints feel unwelcome. I’m devastated by my own unrepentance over my ungracious hostessing. It must be my limbic system acting out again.
“It must be my limbic system acting out again.”
I didn’t think Mennonites danced…
Yeah, but see maybe you just have a condition (which is much, much more sensitive than saying disease, btw). If so, no repentance necessary for ungracious hostessing.
Funny, though, I’m often an alternate viewpoint, and I feel welcome…
“I didn’t think Mennonites danced…”
Ah, but I’m not Menno, my husband is. I dance all the time. I’m very limber. Um, limbic. Um…[blond head toss]
“maybe you just have a condition”
I will feel fully justified in whatever I aim at you forevermore, under these terms. Sarcasm is a condition.
“Funny, though, I’m often an alternate viewpoint, and I feel welcome…”
Yeah, it is really funny, and I’m not sure where you get that, but hey, it provides me with great opportunities for embracing my condition.
“I will feel fully justified in whatever I aim at you forevermore”
As if you didn’t already…
7 out.
“7 out.”
It’s called “7UP,” doofus. And do you realize it’s past your bedtime?
That’s maybe what he meant by 7out. Maybe he was passing out as he typed it?????? And Marc, I don’t dance. Well, OK, I did twice. That’s plenty for one lifetime…..
Yes, I got him, but I was in ditzy hair-toss mode (see above). He likely WAS passing out. Good grief, that was much too close to midnight for an old guy like him.
Tiger Lily has initiated the Skating Lobby and will not cease being tenacious. Spazzerific’s off to placate her tenacity with an axe.
For checking the ice on the pond, I mean.
You kinda left that one wide open. You did mention to him that he should check the thickness near the edge before venturing out farther, correct??????
Too late. He’s already run across it several times, according to local paparazzi reports, which he did not attempt to deny. Now we’re just down to formalities.
UPDATE: 5 or 6 feet from the edge, the ice is 6 inches thick. Would you prefer more rigorous examination?
I suppose it’s kinda too late anyway, but that’s plenty for my comfort level. Give them shovels and skates and say goodbye to the afternoon.
They’ve already been at it…they came in for lunch and gave themselves a 20 minute time limit before they head out again.
I might go with them. I see they found my skates. And left them at the bottom of the kitchen steps, of course, because you wouldn’t want to put sharp objects somewhere out from underfoot.
See? This is what sex gets us. You know you’ve got some real gonads when you’re willing to run the gauntlet of reproduction rather than resorting to autoeroticism. Which I think is part of the standard argument against traditional marriage and family. Kids?!? Who’s got the testosterone for that?!?
People know not of what they deprive themselves. The completion of the sexual continuum: not self-gratification, but becoming a functional adult against every urge of the sin nature because you’re forced to by your offspring.
“It’s called “7UP,” doofus” [reproduced here for our continued enjoyment]
Uh, down is the opposite of up, not out…
“Maybe he was passing out as he typed it??????…Good grief, that was much too close to midnight for an old guy like him.”
You young’uns are so green, Al Gore will be at your door any moment now with a little award for you
“Uh, down is the opposite of up, not out…”
It’s the internet. I’m not bound by your outdated 1.0 thinking.
“You young’uns are so green, Al Gore will be at your door any moment now with a little award for you”
ROFL! From the guy who’s so Texan, Dubya asked to buy shares in his accent…
“From the guy who’s so Texan, Dubya asked to buy shares in his accent…”
Ha! Touche, Frenchie…nicely done.
I just love it, though, when y’all bring up other’s accents, eh?
I know you miss that refined Canardian sound, but hey, I’ve got one podcast under my belt to get y’all through the holidays, and there’s always the conference audio.
Seeing your newly-attained mastery of the textual “eh,” there may be hope for you yet.
Cat,
Allow me to steer the conversation back to the topic at hand.
Thanks for your comments here and and at the op. Its one thing to hear a guy defend porn, but its even more important for there to be the balancing view, that of what it means to a woman in a relationship with someone addicted. Good stuff. And I love what nearly everyone was saying about how porn pulls the eyes away from a true worship of God and down into a worship of self. This is one of those things that is so self-evident but we in our lostness so very often fail to recognize it.
Thanks for thoughtfully navigating a tricky issue.
“Allow me to steer the conversation back to the topic at hand. ”
Quixote, pay attention, you incorrigible thread hijacker.
“its even more important for there to be the balancing view, that of what it means to a woman in a relationship with someone addicted.”
Yes, I appreciated what Barbara had to say about counselling the women affected, and I thought the PTSD connection was particularly interesting, as it lends longitudinal measurability to the partner’s scenario. That scenario seems to be something that “freedom of speech/thought” advocates helpfully manage to ignore.
“Thanks for thoughtfully navigating a tricky issue.”
Dave, over my shoulder: “Not too tricky. It’s sin. Plain and simple.” All the same, thanks. I was wondering if we’d be able to have a successful mixed-gender conversation, or if I’d embarrass everyone into silence, but I figured it’s important enough to post either way. Good group here, if we can just keep that reprobate Wile E. from breaking off into his Al Gore Fan Club promotional spiels.
“Allow me to steer the conversation back to the topic at hand.
Quixote, pay attention, you incorrigible thread hijacker.”
Only a guy from North Houston…uh, I mean, Dallas, would reference a steer in the Sex and the Christian Man thread
Oh my word what is WRONG with you?? You can’t just say “Hey buddy, Merry Christmas” like everyone else? You could try Spanish if it breaks the psychological block and saves you some emotional trauma…say it with me…
F…E…L…I…Z……NAV…I…DAD…
And if you’re not at work, you’d BETTER be up to your eyeballs on your upcoming novel, or your critique partner here is going to KICK you. Merry Christmas, Quixote.
“Oh my word what is WRONG with you??”
I’m not sure…I’ve always been this way. OK, Hank…the fun police are out in force this Christmas, so I retract my acknowledgment of your single cleverest verb usage I’ve seen in months. Steer…pure genius, man. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas, CD.
You’re all thumbs, Nero.
“fun police”
No, no, no. That would be the “any opportunity to harass Quixote” vigilante squad. This is what you get for knowingly and willfully taking up with rogues.
Merry Christmas, Papa Bear.
“You’re all thumbs, Nero.”
But at least I’m fiddling…
Joyeux Noël, Boucle d’or.
“But at least I’m fiddling…”
ZOUCH! Yes, but do stop burning this incredibly classic, epic, historic location and blaming me for it.
“Joyeux Noël, Boucle d’or.”
HA!! Ca c’est a moi pour toujours!! {blonde head toss}
“I’m not sure…I’ve always been this way.”
Good thing you’ve made an addict of me.
“ZOUCH! Yes, but do stop burning this incredibly classic, epic, historic location and blaming me for it.”
Funny, I did see a few hills at the conference now that you mention it. Nero didn’t have a Les Paul, though. I know you don’t approve, being incredibly classic and epic and all, but that’s how us “low church” types bring it
Have a great winter off…
“I know you don’t approve, being incredibly classic and epic and all, but that’s how us “low church” types bring it”
If it makes you feel any better, I’m the owner of a classic, epic Takamine that belonged to my grandfather. However, Dave’s the one who skillfully…um…well, doesn’t play his guitar with a bow…hm, I’d be fascinated to attend an event where you bring it low-church style, come to think of it, Fiddler on the Hoof (not to steer things awry again).
“Have a great winter off…”
Ha! As if winter’s not still in full swing by February 1. And I’m not gone, I’m just transmogrified. You’re not rid of Hobbes by any stretch, Calvin.
“epic Takamine”
Acoustic guitar, right? Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I just have a very “classical” picture in mind.
“Fiddler on the Hoof”
Very clever. I deserved that. Now, get along little dogie…
“You’re not rid of Hobbes by any stretch, Calvin.”
Man, Boucle d’or, the vigilante posse is out in full force. I thought we agreed to let the side reference lie?
Yep, absolutely acoustic…Dave would not allow anything else under his roof.
“get along little dogie…”
I didn’t think I was astray at all.
“side reference”
Why do you assume so much? Hobbes = Tiger = Cat. That leaves you to be the incorrigible little troublemaker who freely and happily ignores the usual delimiters imposed between internal and external worlds, in a rare and canny recognition of their pragmatic artificiality in the greater context of human perception.
You DO like to read into things a certain way. Take me at my word!
“That leaves you to be the incorrigible little troublemaker who freely and happily ignores the usual delimiters imposed between internal and external worlds, in a rare and canny recognition of their pragmatic artificiality in the greater context of human perception.”
Very impressive paragraph, actually…
“You DO like to read into things a certain way.”
I DO like to have fun, and sometimes accomplices are so very difficult to come by
“Very impressive paragraph, actually…”
Thank you. {takes bow} Don’t ever let anyone call you just plain nuts…and if they really must insist on it, I’ll cheerily thrash them round your comments section.
“I DO like to have fun, and sometimes accomplices are so very difficult to come by”
Not around here, O philosophizing pilot of wagons over irresistible cliffs. I inevitably seem to end up along for the ride.
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